This piece describes my experience too, but... here's the thing. There seem to be a significant number of mothers who don't seem to get the idea of dependence, of the dyad. Has anyone here come across this? Examples iclude my mother-in-law, a boomer who is mystified that I wanted the (breastfeeding) baby in the same room as me, who can't understand that I have to work for financial reasons but would far rather be with my kids. I have colleagues who want a career like a man would have, with childcare as a problem to be solved, not a chance to spend time with and raise your children. They love their kids but their own independence and individual fulfilment is the goal. So although the dyad idea came naturally to me, and I've definitely had an awakening in terms of allowing myself to depend on my husband, I do wonder whether these ideas are universal. Any thoughts? Ive probably not explained this well...
This is SUCH a great question. Honestly, I don’t know the answer! I’ve definitely noticed it, amongst my generation and the ones above.
I don’t think the idea of the mother baby dyad comes instinctively to every woman, so in that sense these ideas are not universal. And some babies are much more chill than others and will tolerate/be happy with more independence from their mother at a younger age.
But I do increasingly think that the mother baby dyad is a reality whether it is acknowledged or not. At least to babies, if not to all mothers. At the end of the day, we are still mammals and our babies are biologically driven to want to be close to us. There seems to be a very pervasive idea that it doesn’t matter who takes care of small children, so only do it if you want to, but I’ve seen convincing research that suggests that essentially forcing our infants to be independent before they are biologically ready can have a significant impact. Erika Komisar has some really good work on this.
I still haven’t figured this out in my head but I think I lean towards the idea that ignoring the mother baby dyad and forcing independence earlier than is developmentally appropriate can have negative unintended consequences.
I feel like I haven’t really answered your question but this is something I’ve also been asking myself a lot since becoming a mother.
I haven't figured out the exact question yet...glad im not the only one to notice this though! 3 thoughts: 1. wonder if it has to do with different levels of maternal hormones? (I've always felt this, pre-kids too, but others have told me of a huge perspective change after birth). 2. Everyone debates effects of daycare on baby, but the mother can also suffer, if she is pushed into independence too soon e.g. she feels she should be able to do it all without help, or doesn't want to go back to work (yet) but feels she has to (nobody in my work, social or family circles stayed at home after maternity leave, so I didn't even occur to me ad a realistic option - several work part time though) 3. Could it relate to some people internalising more than others the atomisation that our individualistic culture encourages? Or the look-after-others-first imperative that many women internalise?
So much to dig into here! I think all three of the points you raise have validity to them.
My mum is a good example of a woman who wasn’t “maternal”. She got married in her late 20s, had never really wanted kids but agreed to have one because my dad wanted to, then as soon as my brother was born she says it was like a switch flipped and she immediately wanted another one. She ended up fully embracing motherhood and having 6 kids. Which has to be at least partly a hormonal shift imo.
I definitely agree that mothers also suffer, often greatly, from the push to separate the mother-baby. There is a lack of role models for sure, especially with things like breastfeeding, it’s just not something most women grow up seeing. I can’t remember where I read this, but I recently read about how some cats know how to climb out of trees and others don’t, and the theory is that some cats get to watch other cats do it whilst they are young and so then they learn how to do it…basically the idea is that humans aren’t that different and so need certain behaviours modelled in their peer/social group to learn them.
So much more that could be said on this topic…I have a theory that I’m trying to flesh out that is around the idea that many women suffer from “wounded maternal instincts” that make it a lot harder for them to transition to motherhood. Relates to a lot of the points you raised.
I WANTED to like Komisar but she’s genuinely the most sanctimonious author I’ve ever read, and I went to law school 😂 I could not shake the sense that she viewed motherhood as some kind of competition, of which she was the self-declared winner
I know I heard someone say they wanted to hold their new grandchild but didn’t want the baby to “get used to it,” and find dependence on the parents. Like the baby is fresh out of the womb, he doesn’t know he’s born yet??? Not to be a hater, but Boomer mentality is so weird to me.
I’m not a mother, but as a young person who has individualism drilled into her since birth pretty much, the idea of the mother-child dyad still feels “icky” to me even though it is what I want now. There is something terrifying about having another person be completely dependent on you, and you being dependent on them (ex. If the baby doesn’t breastfeed, you will be in pain).
On the flip side, having a career brings about a false, but powerful sense of security, especially if you feel you can’t trust anyone to take care of you.
Oh I thought it was icky too, especially when I was in my “eat pray love” era bumming around the world. My insta was just pics of me in exotic places with obnoxious captions like “i am the sea and nobody owns me” 😂 babies were NOT the vibe lol, I mean I didn’t want to be tied down to a country, let alone to one small human.
And it is terrifying having a baby human depend on you so completely. But partly it’s terrifying because of the amount of love you feel for this tiny alien creature is terrifying, and the sense of responsibility you suddenly have. My own experience is that the more I have resisted my children’s dependence and tried to maintain my own independence, the harder I have found motherhood. I don’t fully understand *why* that is so but it’s true for me at least.
I have wondered this often myself…I think there is definitely some kind of connection, especially if you consider the scale at which these interventions happen. Agree that there is likely some kind of hormonal feedback loop that occurs. I have a lot of questions and thoughts around this topic that I hope to tease out someday. I had a medicated hospital birth with an epidural for my first and a homebirth with my second, and the two experiences were like night and day. It wasn’t just the labour and birth part, but the entire recovery and postpartum period was totally different (in a good way) after my homebirth. There seems to be a lot of resistance by many to even considering whether the way birth unfolds has longer term consequences, but to me it seems obvious that it does in some way, although the exact mechanism isn’t entirely clear. Imo a lot of OBs (and society in general) seem to have the default assumption that women’s bodies are basically faulty machines that aren’t very good at giving birth, and so therefore the more we can “help” women by intervening yo speed things up etc the better, and it’s just assumed that there won’t be knock on consequences. Again, I think the concept of the body as a machine has a lot to answer for here, it leads to a tendency to oversimplify incredibly complex processes. I personally think this is a backwards way of looking at it and that the default position should be that birth normally works, and that we need to try and understand how and why it works, and come at it with a curious and open mind, not the assumption that “well women just aren’t very good at giving birth”. Yes, birth includes pathology, so interventions are sometimes necessary, clearly they have saved and continue to save many lives, but I do think that we need better understanding around the potential long term consequences of things like an epidural, because they are commonly presented as essentially risk free, the risk of spinal nerve damage is the only thing I remember being warned about.
The number of women I hear say “I’ll just let the doctor call the shots” when it’s time to give birth is astounding to me. Like, you want a stranger to manage one of the most intimate moments of your life (which will likely be end in surgery)? Big yikes.
I've heard countless stories where it's outright traumatic and at the end it's like "well, that's just how it is these days!" I'm like but it doesn't have to be? I am classified as high risk due to a congenital heart defect, and surprisingly, my care team is very relaxed. I've actually had a harder time with midwives who just can't believe I keep having kids. It's weird out there.
It’s so sad hearing women say “well this is just how birth is” after telling you their horribly traumatic birth story.
So true about the lack of woman centred providers though, some areas there are just no good options. And freebirth comes with its all set of risks and is definitely not for everyone. although with my second I had mentally prepared to freebirth if the midwives weren’t able to attend. I had homebirth midwives but through the NHS (UK so state funded) and when I initially called the hospital to ask them to send a midwife out they said no one was available and I’d have to come in. I just immediately said “nope, I’ll stay here” and had absolute peace and clarity about it. In the end it turned out they did have a midwife to send and it was fine anyway, but that moment felt so illuminating.
"Despite the medical advances that I am also glad exist and that I am sure have saved lives, I have noticed that women seem to be more afraid of childbirth than ever"
THIS RIGHT HERE! The more our culture tries to control and manage birth, the more we seem to fear it.
Congratulations on your pregnancy! My mom had 6 of us, all straightforward unmedicated births, 5 of us born at home. She had the same mentality as you, and said that her mindset was that "my body was made for this".
At the risk of sounding controversial...it seems that almost all the 'routine' guidelines and interventions in maternity and obstetric care risk interrupting the mother baby dyad. Even with things that sound like they're trying to take physiology into account like "delayed cord clamping", the NHS defines delayed as meaning "more than 1 minute"...which is not really delayed lol, its just not immediate.
Still transitioning from 0 to 1 but sent this to a close friend who will be transitioning from 1 to 2 soon!
My birth was pretty difficult this time around but this gave me hope for a more positive round 2. Also, love the bear hunt reference. One of the ways I mentally prepped for birth was “well I can’t go over it or under it or around it, just gotta go through it” 😂
Sending hugs. I found the transition from 0-1 so hard. Yeah, I feel like We’re Going On A Bear Hunt is actually just a motivational book for parents as much as a story for kids 😅
Also asking a friend to set up a meal train for us was the best thing I've ever done to ensure a good postpartum experience. Yes, you can prep food yourself, but you can also ask your people to step up! Most are more than willing and love the organization of a meal train.
I didn’t ask anyone to organise a meal train because I didn’t feel like I knew any of the other local mums well enough and I didn’t want to be a burden or impose on them…have just realised that this could have been another sneaky way of my independence asserting itself…like “dont worry I’ll meal prep for myself I don’t need help”. Mind blown 🤯
Yeah if you don’t give people the opportunity to help you can’t be surprised when they don’t, ya know? And definitely not saying this from a place on high — me asking a friend to take this on was pretty recently, with my third baby. I remember stressing out about not having prepped food yet, and it just sort of hit me, I can ask for what I need.
We have a 2 1/2 year old and a 4 month old. This post spoke directly to my experience!! Leaning into the hard parts of motherhood makes it "easier" (which I seem to need reminded of alllll the time), the sibling relationship is so so sweet, the bittersweet feeling that the oldest won't be the only one, the second having a totally different personality, etc....it's nice to have some solidarity in this crazy season of life :)
My daughters are really close in age to yours - 2 1/2 and 6 months! I still don’t fully grasp why leaning into the harder parts of motherhood make it paradoxically easier, but it is something I have definitely found to be true in my own experience. Thanks for sharing your experience ♥️
Every kid is so different! My first was an easy baby and I knew it, having been a midwife but still, being one's first is always challenging. Then my second was the intense newborn, so I was dreading the third. But she has turned out to be the easiest baby ever. 😄 They are all so different!
And of course, seeing how the older two adore their younger sister is the sweetest thing ever and one of the most rewarding parts of having several kids.
Yes so true! My mum had six kids and she said we were all so different! I’m kinda glad my intense baby came first and the second was a little easier. All bets are off if we have a third I guess. Watching the sibling relationships blossom is a big part of my motivation for wanting a larger family, those relationships are so special.
Seconding the request for the freezer meals! I am pregnant with my second now and regretted not doing more of them for my first.
I loved reading this perspective going into having another child. I had a difficult birth and postpartum with my daughter. I was so afraid to ask for help because I didn’t think I should need it. Embracing interdependence is something I struggle with but am hoping to grow in with my new baby.
Ok I will definitely try and find the list I made and share it! Sending you best wishes for your next birth and postpartum ♥️ I struggled a lot with my first birth and postpartum and know how it feels, hoping you have a smoother transition with your second.
My first two are 13 months apart and I have always said it was a gift that it happened that way… it would have been hard to think about trying again while I was experiencing parenting a 1-year-old for the first time! My second was a hard baby but that was still easier than a toddler. I have heard from several people that you hit the threshold for demands of parenting around 2 (maybe 3 in some circumstances). Having more kids beyond that doesn’t require much surrender (you are already there), but still brings all the joy. So once you hit the point of leaning in, there’s a strong reward in personal satisfaction if you keep having more.
Love this! My mum had me and my older brother 12 months apart and she said she felt it was easier than if she’d had a longer gap…I can believe it but find it hard to compute it in my brain somehow.
I’ve heard the same about lots of kids actually not requiring that much more surrender…I grew up in one of those large families (6 kids) and I think it’s largely true…although as the oldest daughter I became a kind of surrogate mother to my youngest siblings. Which I mostly loved! I guess all I would say is that the total time you spend in “baby/kid” phase is just longer with more kids…so maybe it’s not an increase in intensity so much as just an increase in time.
Yes, and there are so many variances in how people handle the baby/toddler phase (difficulty of pregnancy/birth, sleep training, activity levels, etc.) that staying in that phase is going to look different for every family. We had a 7.5 year gap before the third (now a year old), and I was worried about making them substitute parents but I can’t keep my big kids off her. They beg to do basically every chore for her so she wants them all the time and it may become a bit of a prison of their own making. We’ll see!
Can confirm - it's psychologically almost easier to have them close, in some cases. Our first gap is 14 months and the second 19 months (that's three boys in just under three years...!) So I get why it would be hard to muster up the energy with more substantial gaps. We didn't experience that angst because by the time we were feelin' it, we already had three littles. hahahha
You are a trooper Haley! I have a two year gap which worked well for us, but we are considering trying for a smaller gap between the second and third. Will see though! My mum had 4 in 5 years then a gap for the last two, and always said it was a lot easier having us close together than everyone thought.
I really connected with the resisting dependence part. I was unconsciously very committed to the idea of my independence, and seeing it as a (maybe THE) strength. (And for me, this was absolutely influenced by my experiences with feminist messaging, but probably also as you say by culture at large). I also really love the idea of surrender (and have mused about it myself; I'll link below for anyone interested), and the connection to birth is so real. In my third birth (unmedicated at home) my mantra for each contraction was "yes; thank you." It helped *so* much with the tendency to fight them instead of relax into them. Oof, such a metaphor for motherhood and that's probably no accident!
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts Amber! I think dependence is just so generally looked down on in our culture that even women like me who never really got into feminism properly still absorbed this idea that being independent was the way you proved yourself. The connection to birth is so fascinating to me, because I really feel deeply that I was able to better surrender with my second, both in her birth and in the postpartum period. I love your piece on surrender, thanks for linking.
Yes! Dependence is looked down on - whether elderly, disabled, or children. I've learnt a lot by being dependent and being depended on. Dependence is a key aspect of humanity, and a lot of folk seem to pretend it doesn't exist
A thousand times this! I think we look down on dependence in others because we can’t accept weakness or dependence in ourselves, and believe, often subconsciously, that dependence represents failure. I really believe the idea that we can’t tolerate in others the flaws we don’t accept in ourselves, and I think the *general* intolerance of dependence is a good example of this at a societal level.
This is beautiful, and thank you for sharing your experience. Currently, I am pregnant with my second child, another daughter, and your words resonate deeply with me. I am definitely feeling anxiety and worry about the same concerns you faced. My eldest daughter is my whole world, and I can't help but worry about how her world will change with the arrival of her little sister. The thought of juggling a newborn and a two-year-old also worries me.
Yet, there is so much excitement as well. I am excited to see their bond grow and welcome another tiny baby into our lives. Everything may feel daunting right now, but the love and excitement for our expanding family fills my heart with warmth and hope. Thank you for sharing your journey; it has given me some comfort and reassurance.
This resonates so much with me. My husband left for deployment a week after my second was born so I moved back with my family while he was gone and Oh boy did I have to embrace interdependence there. Despite all this, I was surprised by how I have been able to enjoy my second born. My first is still the hard one too.
I’ve always loved Impressionist art but now I’m a mother Mary Cassatts paintings hit different!
Wow, that sounds so tough, I’m so glad you were still able to enjoy postpartum with your second. In theory I love the idea of multi generational living but I know I would find it really tough in reality…the independence streak runs deep!
Would love to hear which meals you froze! I did some of that before both my babies, albeit with a small freezer both times! But I had a hard time finding meals that were simple on the defrost end (without requiring too much extra prep) while still tasty & nutritious.
I actually think I made a list somewhere of the meals I did but I’ll try and remember…definitely shepherds pie, lasagne (i did beef and also a chicken and veg lasagne), sausage and bean casseroles, beef brisket stew, lentil daal, lamb stew, lamb curry, meatballs in tomato sauce (also meatballs on their own), beef chilli, bean chilli…basically a lot of things that could be defrosted then served with either rice or mashed potato or pasta! We ended up doing a tonne of rice cooked in bone broth as that added in more nutrients and was so tasty. I have an instant pot so I used that to make bone broth and when I did my bulk cooks I used whole chickens and lamb shoulder on the bone etc so that I had bones to use to make bone broth - it worked out pretty economical! I would often just add one fresh cooked veg side dish to each meal, but something simple like boiled broccoli or peas.
Pretty sure I made a whole spreadsheet detailing all the meals I prepped which I might try and find!
Also I made and ate a lot of chicken liver pate. Recommend that too! I blitzed up and puréed liver and added it to all the dishes with mince (lasagne etc) to just boost the nutrient profile a bit.
Thank you, these are all great ideas (and oh so very English)! And that's brilliant about the bone broth, I can see that being really appealing postpartum. The chicken liver a bit less so but probably very healthy! The further into motherhood I progress the more open I am to these things...
I wasn’t convinced about the chicken liver pate but I love it now. Just make sure you use LOTS of butter…you can also add bacon to soften the liver taste. But chicken liver has a milder flavour anyway compared to beef liver.
I relate to everything you said here! Except unfortunately my second birth went almost as bad as my first, and in some ways it was worse. But this postpartum was better and the first six months was great. It got harder in months 6.5-10, and it’s starting to get easier again as they are playing together more. I think having my second actually repairs my relationship with my first in a way I didn’t anticipate. We are much closer now than we were before I had her little sister!
This piece describes my experience too, but... here's the thing. There seem to be a significant number of mothers who don't seem to get the idea of dependence, of the dyad. Has anyone here come across this? Examples iclude my mother-in-law, a boomer who is mystified that I wanted the (breastfeeding) baby in the same room as me, who can't understand that I have to work for financial reasons but would far rather be with my kids. I have colleagues who want a career like a man would have, with childcare as a problem to be solved, not a chance to spend time with and raise your children. They love their kids but their own independence and individual fulfilment is the goal. So although the dyad idea came naturally to me, and I've definitely had an awakening in terms of allowing myself to depend on my husband, I do wonder whether these ideas are universal. Any thoughts? Ive probably not explained this well...
This is SUCH a great question. Honestly, I don’t know the answer! I’ve definitely noticed it, amongst my generation and the ones above.
I don’t think the idea of the mother baby dyad comes instinctively to every woman, so in that sense these ideas are not universal. And some babies are much more chill than others and will tolerate/be happy with more independence from their mother at a younger age.
But I do increasingly think that the mother baby dyad is a reality whether it is acknowledged or not. At least to babies, if not to all mothers. At the end of the day, we are still mammals and our babies are biologically driven to want to be close to us. There seems to be a very pervasive idea that it doesn’t matter who takes care of small children, so only do it if you want to, but I’ve seen convincing research that suggests that essentially forcing our infants to be independent before they are biologically ready can have a significant impact. Erika Komisar has some really good work on this.
I still haven’t figured this out in my head but I think I lean towards the idea that ignoring the mother baby dyad and forcing independence earlier than is developmentally appropriate can have negative unintended consequences.
I feel like I haven’t really answered your question but this is something I’ve also been asking myself a lot since becoming a mother.
I haven't figured out the exact question yet...glad im not the only one to notice this though! 3 thoughts: 1. wonder if it has to do with different levels of maternal hormones? (I've always felt this, pre-kids too, but others have told me of a huge perspective change after birth). 2. Everyone debates effects of daycare on baby, but the mother can also suffer, if she is pushed into independence too soon e.g. she feels she should be able to do it all without help, or doesn't want to go back to work (yet) but feels she has to (nobody in my work, social or family circles stayed at home after maternity leave, so I didn't even occur to me ad a realistic option - several work part time though) 3. Could it relate to some people internalising more than others the atomisation that our individualistic culture encourages? Or the look-after-others-first imperative that many women internalise?
So much to dig into here! I think all three of the points you raise have validity to them.
My mum is a good example of a woman who wasn’t “maternal”. She got married in her late 20s, had never really wanted kids but agreed to have one because my dad wanted to, then as soon as my brother was born she says it was like a switch flipped and she immediately wanted another one. She ended up fully embracing motherhood and having 6 kids. Which has to be at least partly a hormonal shift imo.
I definitely agree that mothers also suffer, often greatly, from the push to separate the mother-baby. There is a lack of role models for sure, especially with things like breastfeeding, it’s just not something most women grow up seeing. I can’t remember where I read this, but I recently read about how some cats know how to climb out of trees and others don’t, and the theory is that some cats get to watch other cats do it whilst they are young and so then they learn how to do it…basically the idea is that humans aren’t that different and so need certain behaviours modelled in their peer/social group to learn them.
So much more that could be said on this topic…I have a theory that I’m trying to flesh out that is around the idea that many women suffer from “wounded maternal instincts” that make it a lot harder for them to transition to motherhood. Relates to a lot of the points you raised.
I WANTED to like Komisar but she’s genuinely the most sanctimonious author I’ve ever read, and I went to law school 😂 I could not shake the sense that she viewed motherhood as some kind of competition, of which she was the self-declared winner
Haha fair enough 😂 I’ve only read articles and listened to podcasts with her on.
I know I heard someone say they wanted to hold their new grandchild but didn’t want the baby to “get used to it,” and find dependence on the parents. Like the baby is fresh out of the womb, he doesn’t know he’s born yet??? Not to be a hater, but Boomer mentality is so weird to me.
I hate these people. I swear they are unhinged.
I’m not a mother, but as a young person who has individualism drilled into her since birth pretty much, the idea of the mother-child dyad still feels “icky” to me even though it is what I want now. There is something terrifying about having another person be completely dependent on you, and you being dependent on them (ex. If the baby doesn’t breastfeed, you will be in pain).
On the flip side, having a career brings about a false, but powerful sense of security, especially if you feel you can’t trust anyone to take care of you.
Oh I thought it was icky too, especially when I was in my “eat pray love” era bumming around the world. My insta was just pics of me in exotic places with obnoxious captions like “i am the sea and nobody owns me” 😂 babies were NOT the vibe lol, I mean I didn’t want to be tied down to a country, let alone to one small human.
And it is terrifying having a baby human depend on you so completely. But partly it’s terrifying because of the amount of love you feel for this tiny alien creature is terrifying, and the sense of responsibility you suddenly have. My own experience is that the more I have resisted my children’s dependence and tried to maintain my own independence, the harder I have found motherhood. I don’t fully understand *why* that is so but it’s true for me at least.
I have wondered this often myself…I think there is definitely some kind of connection, especially if you consider the scale at which these interventions happen. Agree that there is likely some kind of hormonal feedback loop that occurs. I have a lot of questions and thoughts around this topic that I hope to tease out someday. I had a medicated hospital birth with an epidural for my first and a homebirth with my second, and the two experiences were like night and day. It wasn’t just the labour and birth part, but the entire recovery and postpartum period was totally different (in a good way) after my homebirth. There seems to be a lot of resistance by many to even considering whether the way birth unfolds has longer term consequences, but to me it seems obvious that it does in some way, although the exact mechanism isn’t entirely clear. Imo a lot of OBs (and society in general) seem to have the default assumption that women’s bodies are basically faulty machines that aren’t very good at giving birth, and so therefore the more we can “help” women by intervening yo speed things up etc the better, and it’s just assumed that there won’t be knock on consequences. Again, I think the concept of the body as a machine has a lot to answer for here, it leads to a tendency to oversimplify incredibly complex processes. I personally think this is a backwards way of looking at it and that the default position should be that birth normally works, and that we need to try and understand how and why it works, and come at it with a curious and open mind, not the assumption that “well women just aren’t very good at giving birth”. Yes, birth includes pathology, so interventions are sometimes necessary, clearly they have saved and continue to save many lives, but I do think that we need better understanding around the potential long term consequences of things like an epidural, because they are commonly presented as essentially risk free, the risk of spinal nerve damage is the only thing I remember being warned about.
The number of women I hear say “I’ll just let the doctor call the shots” when it’s time to give birth is astounding to me. Like, you want a stranger to manage one of the most intimate moments of your life (which will likely be end in surgery)? Big yikes.
It’s a no from me
I've heard countless stories where it's outright traumatic and at the end it's like "well, that's just how it is these days!" I'm like but it doesn't have to be? I am classified as high risk due to a congenital heart defect, and surprisingly, my care team is very relaxed. I've actually had a harder time with midwives who just can't believe I keep having kids. It's weird out there.
It’s so sad hearing women say “well this is just how birth is” after telling you their horribly traumatic birth story.
So true about the lack of woman centred providers though, some areas there are just no good options. And freebirth comes with its all set of risks and is definitely not for everyone. although with my second I had mentally prepared to freebirth if the midwives weren’t able to attend. I had homebirth midwives but through the NHS (UK so state funded) and when I initially called the hospital to ask them to send a midwife out they said no one was available and I’d have to come in. I just immediately said “nope, I’ll stay here” and had absolute peace and clarity about it. In the end it turned out they did have a midwife to send and it was fine anyway, but that moment felt so illuminating.
"Despite the medical advances that I am also glad exist and that I am sure have saved lives, I have noticed that women seem to be more afraid of childbirth than ever"
THIS RIGHT HERE! The more our culture tries to control and manage birth, the more we seem to fear it.
Congratulations on your pregnancy! My mom had 6 of us, all straightforward unmedicated births, 5 of us born at home. She had the same mentality as you, and said that her mindset was that "my body was made for this".
At the risk of sounding controversial...it seems that almost all the 'routine' guidelines and interventions in maternity and obstetric care risk interrupting the mother baby dyad. Even with things that sound like they're trying to take physiology into account like "delayed cord clamping", the NHS defines delayed as meaning "more than 1 minute"...which is not really delayed lol, its just not immediate.
Still transitioning from 0 to 1 but sent this to a close friend who will be transitioning from 1 to 2 soon!
My birth was pretty difficult this time around but this gave me hope for a more positive round 2. Also, love the bear hunt reference. One of the ways I mentally prepped for birth was “well I can’t go over it or under it or around it, just gotta go through it” 😂
Sending hugs. I found the transition from 0-1 so hard. Yeah, I feel like We’re Going On A Bear Hunt is actually just a motivational book for parents as much as a story for kids 😅
Also asking a friend to set up a meal train for us was the best thing I've ever done to ensure a good postpartum experience. Yes, you can prep food yourself, but you can also ask your people to step up! Most are more than willing and love the organization of a meal train.
I didn’t ask anyone to organise a meal train because I didn’t feel like I knew any of the other local mums well enough and I didn’t want to be a burden or impose on them…have just realised that this could have been another sneaky way of my independence asserting itself…like “dont worry I’ll meal prep for myself I don’t need help”. Mind blown 🤯
Yeah if you don’t give people the opportunity to help you can’t be surprised when they don’t, ya know? And definitely not saying this from a place on high — me asking a friend to take this on was pretty recently, with my third baby. I remember stressing out about not having prepped food yet, and it just sort of hit me, I can ask for what I need.
So true Amber, so true! Maybe with our next baby I will have learnt this lesson a little better…
We have a 2 1/2 year old and a 4 month old. This post spoke directly to my experience!! Leaning into the hard parts of motherhood makes it "easier" (which I seem to need reminded of alllll the time), the sibling relationship is so so sweet, the bittersweet feeling that the oldest won't be the only one, the second having a totally different personality, etc....it's nice to have some solidarity in this crazy season of life :)
My daughters are really close in age to yours - 2 1/2 and 6 months! I still don’t fully grasp why leaning into the harder parts of motherhood make it paradoxically easier, but it is something I have definitely found to be true in my own experience. Thanks for sharing your experience ♥️
Every kid is so different! My first was an easy baby and I knew it, having been a midwife but still, being one's first is always challenging. Then my second was the intense newborn, so I was dreading the third. But she has turned out to be the easiest baby ever. 😄 They are all so different!
And of course, seeing how the older two adore their younger sister is the sweetest thing ever and one of the most rewarding parts of having several kids.
Yes so true! My mum had six kids and she said we were all so different! I’m kinda glad my intense baby came first and the second was a little easier. All bets are off if we have a third I guess. Watching the sibling relationships blossom is a big part of my motivation for wanting a larger family, those relationships are so special.
Seconding the request for the freezer meals! I am pregnant with my second now and regretted not doing more of them for my first.
I loved reading this perspective going into having another child. I had a difficult birth and postpartum with my daughter. I was so afraid to ask for help because I didn’t think I should need it. Embracing interdependence is something I struggle with but am hoping to grow in with my new baby.
Ok I will definitely try and find the list I made and share it! Sending you best wishes for your next birth and postpartum ♥️ I struggled a lot with my first birth and postpartum and know how it feels, hoping you have a smoother transition with your second.
My first two are 13 months apart and I have always said it was a gift that it happened that way… it would have been hard to think about trying again while I was experiencing parenting a 1-year-old for the first time! My second was a hard baby but that was still easier than a toddler. I have heard from several people that you hit the threshold for demands of parenting around 2 (maybe 3 in some circumstances). Having more kids beyond that doesn’t require much surrender (you are already there), but still brings all the joy. So once you hit the point of leaning in, there’s a strong reward in personal satisfaction if you keep having more.
Love this! My mum had me and my older brother 12 months apart and she said she felt it was easier than if she’d had a longer gap…I can believe it but find it hard to compute it in my brain somehow.
I’ve heard the same about lots of kids actually not requiring that much more surrender…I grew up in one of those large families (6 kids) and I think it’s largely true…although as the oldest daughter I became a kind of surrogate mother to my youngest siblings. Which I mostly loved! I guess all I would say is that the total time you spend in “baby/kid” phase is just longer with more kids…so maybe it’s not an increase in intensity so much as just an increase in time.
Yes, and there are so many variances in how people handle the baby/toddler phase (difficulty of pregnancy/birth, sleep training, activity levels, etc.) that staying in that phase is going to look different for every family. We had a 7.5 year gap before the third (now a year old), and I was worried about making them substitute parents but I can’t keep my big kids off her. They beg to do basically every chore for her so she wants them all the time and it may become a bit of a prison of their own making. We’ll see!
Can confirm - it's psychologically almost easier to have them close, in some cases. Our first gap is 14 months and the second 19 months (that's three boys in just under three years...!) So I get why it would be hard to muster up the energy with more substantial gaps. We didn't experience that angst because by the time we were feelin' it, we already had three littles. hahahha
You are a trooper Haley! I have a two year gap which worked well for us, but we are considering trying for a smaller gap between the second and third. Will see though! My mum had 4 in 5 years then a gap for the last two, and always said it was a lot easier having us close together than everyone thought.
I really connected with the resisting dependence part. I was unconsciously very committed to the idea of my independence, and seeing it as a (maybe THE) strength. (And for me, this was absolutely influenced by my experiences with feminist messaging, but probably also as you say by culture at large). I also really love the idea of surrender (and have mused about it myself; I'll link below for anyone interested), and the connection to birth is so real. In my third birth (unmedicated at home) my mantra for each contraction was "yes; thank you." It helped *so* much with the tendency to fight them instead of relax into them. Oof, such a metaphor for motherhood and that's probably no accident!
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts Amber! I think dependence is just so generally looked down on in our culture that even women like me who never really got into feminism properly still absorbed this idea that being independent was the way you proved yourself. The connection to birth is so fascinating to me, because I really feel deeply that I was able to better surrender with my second, both in her birth and in the postpartum period. I love your piece on surrender, thanks for linking.
Yes! Dependence is looked down on - whether elderly, disabled, or children. I've learnt a lot by being dependent and being depended on. Dependence is a key aspect of humanity, and a lot of folk seem to pretend it doesn't exist
A thousand times this! I think we look down on dependence in others because we can’t accept weakness or dependence in ourselves, and believe, often subconsciously, that dependence represents failure. I really believe the idea that we can’t tolerate in others the flaws we don’t accept in ourselves, and I think the *general* intolerance of dependence is a good example of this at a societal level.
https://open.substack.com/pub/onetiredmother/p/motherhood-is-not-our-enemy?r=22tzy&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
This is beautiful, and thank you for sharing your experience. Currently, I am pregnant with my second child, another daughter, and your words resonate deeply with me. I am definitely feeling anxiety and worry about the same concerns you faced. My eldest daughter is my whole world, and I can't help but worry about how her world will change with the arrival of her little sister. The thought of juggling a newborn and a two-year-old also worries me.
Yet, there is so much excitement as well. I am excited to see their bond grow and welcome another tiny baby into our lives. Everything may feel daunting right now, but the love and excitement for our expanding family fills my heart with warmth and hope. Thank you for sharing your journey; it has given me some comfort and reassurance.
I remember those feelings SO well, it is a big transition for sure. The juggle is real and can be tough, but I’m rooting for you!
First of all, I love this painting! Wow!
Your writing is also beautiful. Thank you.
This resonates so much with me. My husband left for deployment a week after my second was born so I moved back with my family while he was gone and Oh boy did I have to embrace interdependence there. Despite all this, I was surprised by how I have been able to enjoy my second born. My first is still the hard one too.
I’ve always loved Impressionist art but now I’m a mother Mary Cassatts paintings hit different!
Wow, that sounds so tough, I’m so glad you were still able to enjoy postpartum with your second. In theory I love the idea of multi generational living but I know I would find it really tough in reality…the independence streak runs deep!
Would love to hear which meals you froze! I did some of that before both my babies, albeit with a small freezer both times! But I had a hard time finding meals that were simple on the defrost end (without requiring too much extra prep) while still tasty & nutritious.
I actually think I made a list somewhere of the meals I did but I’ll try and remember…definitely shepherds pie, lasagne (i did beef and also a chicken and veg lasagne), sausage and bean casseroles, beef brisket stew, lentil daal, lamb stew, lamb curry, meatballs in tomato sauce (also meatballs on their own), beef chilli, bean chilli…basically a lot of things that could be defrosted then served with either rice or mashed potato or pasta! We ended up doing a tonne of rice cooked in bone broth as that added in more nutrients and was so tasty. I have an instant pot so I used that to make bone broth and when I did my bulk cooks I used whole chickens and lamb shoulder on the bone etc so that I had bones to use to make bone broth - it worked out pretty economical! I would often just add one fresh cooked veg side dish to each meal, but something simple like boiled broccoli or peas.
Pretty sure I made a whole spreadsheet detailing all the meals I prepped which I might try and find!
Also I made and ate a lot of chicken liver pate. Recommend that too! I blitzed up and puréed liver and added it to all the dishes with mince (lasagne etc) to just boost the nutrient profile a bit.
Thank you, these are all great ideas (and oh so very English)! And that's brilliant about the bone broth, I can see that being really appealing postpartum. The chicken liver a bit less so but probably very healthy! The further into motherhood I progress the more open I am to these things...
I wasn’t convinced about the chicken liver pate but I love it now. Just make sure you use LOTS of butter…you can also add bacon to soften the liver taste. But chicken liver has a milder flavour anyway compared to beef liver.
I relate to everything you said here! Except unfortunately my second birth went almost as bad as my first, and in some ways it was worse. But this postpartum was better and the first six months was great. It got harder in months 6.5-10, and it’s starting to get easier again as they are playing together more. I think having my second actually repairs my relationship with my first in a way I didn’t anticipate. We are much closer now than we were before I had her little sister!
I’m so sorry your birth experience was not how you had hoped, sending you love ♥️
So glad your postpartum experience was better though, and love that it’s brought you closer to your eldest.